Ya se habla de la quiebra de Porsche

1. hoy pido un préstamo brutal para comprar algo

2. mañana bajan mis ingresos, me preocupo

3. empiezo a tener dificultades para amortizar el préstamo

4. vendo lo que compré y amortizo el préstamo

asunto resuelto, salvo que venda con muchas minusvalías, pero aun así, deuda mínima

¿dónde está el problema?

 

De acuerdo contigo...

Solo un pero.....hacen falta compradores....y en este momento ¿quien compra algo???:[question]

¿La propia VW??? volviendo a recomprar las acciones a Porsche???

Yo creo que VW con la ley proteccionista y la situación delicada en que "supuestamente" está POrsche, no
le interesa comprar, a no ser que sea a precio de saldo....

 

VW no compra sus propias acciones...tendrá que ir absorbiéndolas el mercado
El asunto es que no sé si les interesa desprenderse de VW a los que están por encima de todo este embrollo

 

No necesariamente es facil, Porsche ha pedido mucho dinero prestado para comprar acciones de VW. Que pasaria con el valor en bolsa si de repente intentaria vender un paquete de 70 y tantas porcien de los acciones VW... Cuanto puede perder Porsche en menosvalias sin tener problemas.., supongo que algun o otro analista lo ha mirado y espero que la respuesta es que tienen para sobrevivir.

 

Tienen una última opción suponiendo que avalaran el préstamo con las propias acciones de VW, y es que se las quede el banco, que al fin de al cabo es lo que están haciendo muchas empresas.

S2.

 

le ingresamos todos los aficionados 10 euritos , y que nos sigan cambiando el aceite a 400 E:[question]

 

Lo último que quieren los bancos es quedarse con la compañía. Lo que pasará al final es que los bancos financiadores de Porsche se quedarán con el paquete de acciones de VW y punto :(

Ahora bien, las cuentas de :[porsche] se van a quedar bastante tocadas para los próximo años, con lo que recortarán inversión en nuevos proyectos:[blah]

 

Colocar todas las acciones de VAG que Porsche posee en los mercados actuales es difícil, por no decir imposible. Una posibilidad sería colocar un buen paquete en manos de un fondo soberano y dejar que sean estos quienes negocien y traten de echar abajo la famosa ley Volkswagen.

Sobre la actual gama, ¿no ha habido restyling del Cayenne desde su lanzamiento? Lo pregunto, que no lo sé; lo que sí sé es que la serie X de BMW o la ML de Mercedes son tan viejas, sino más, que el Cayenne, solo que han recibido ciertas mejoras o nuevos diseños, pero sin perder sus señas de identidad.

 

El cayenne aparece en 2002, en el 2006 le hacen un lavado de cara, suben la cilindrada de los motores y ponen inyección directa de gasolina, en el 2008 cambian el navegador por uno con pantalla táctil.

En el X5 han hecho un lifting de la primera generación, pero el actual lleva poco más de 2 años en el mercado y es un modelo completamente nuevo, no un lifting del anterior, el X6 idem. La clase M de mercedes va por su tercera generación, la actual lleva poco más de 3 años en el mercado, pero no se trata de un lifting de la anterior.

 

Solo un problema Del Monte ,
¿ quien te compra hoy tus bienes ? A lo peor no tienes comprador, o el precio es mucho mas bajo que lo que debes al Banco .
Cosa que esta pasando a todos los niveles
Es decir esos paquetes de acciones de VW ay ay ay ¡¡
Lo dije Porsche se ha metido en un lio, y esta buscando petrodolares , para vender un buen paquete de la compañia a capital de Emiratos etc.
Puff ¡¡¡¡
Vuelvo a deciros que nunca salvo en el momento mas álgido de la especulacion financiera, un pez chico se ha comido al grande.
Este es el problema.
Saludos:[question]

 

alguna solución pondrán antes de quebrar, activos seguro que tienen

 

Esta es la noticia que acaba de salir en Invertia

Porsche cae con fuerza por problemas financieros15:33 PORSCHE
Las acciones del fabricante alemán de vehículos de lujo han llegado a caer en la bolsa alemana más del 7% ante las especulaciones de que la compañía necesita más financiación. Un portavoz de Porsche comenta a las agencias que la compañía sigue en conversaciones con la banca para levantar otros 1.750 millones de euros en créditos tras obtener una línea de crédito de 750 millones. Porsche recibió un crédito a corto plazo de VW que expira en septiembre.

 

Más claro agua, sí señor.

 

Algunos dicen que no pasa nada y que la sangre no llegará al río...no sé, en mi opinión, estamos en una situación económicamente hablando, que no tiene precedentes en toda la historia, por lo tanto, todo puede pasar, en estas épocas de crisis una empresa puede dar el "pelotazo" con algún producto innovador, que no ofrezca nadie...etc o se puede dar el gran batacazo, en el caso de Porsche,esperemos que no se den el gran batacazo y con eso creo que se podrían dar por conformes, con pasar esta época y "aguantar" me conformaría.
El panamera no lo veo yo como el salvador de la marca como lo fueron el cayenne o el boxster en otras situaciones criticas y no porque no sea un producto que no tenga clientes o buena acogida (aunque en mi caso, no me gusta en absoluto) sino porque a esos posibles clientes, tampoco les pilla en una época de economía muy boyante que digamos, ese es el problema, no se vende nada.
Otro artículo al respecto:
http://es.autoblog.com/2009/05/25/porsche-estuvo-al-borde-de-la-bancarrota-en-marzo/

 

...preocupante

Fijaos que todas estas especulaciones son muy recientes, y que el mercado ya está reaccionando...la situacion nos puede dar un susto, y si es así, será a no tardar.Si Porsche no encuentro novio/salvador, la cosa pinta mal

 

Esto dicen en el Financial Times:

Collision course
By Daniel Schäfer in Frankfurt

Published: May 25 2009 20:12 | Last updated: May 25 2009 20:12


Cousins in control: Wolfgang Porsche (left) in a 2009 Panamera and, a decade earlier, Ferdinand Piëch in a Bugatti EB218. The global crisis is intensifying a family feud



In any list of career mistakes, a letter written by Arno Bohn 17 years ago would rank highly. As chief executive of Porsche, he wrote to Ferdinand Piëch to suggest the grandson of the founder of the German sports carmaker should resign from the supervisory board of the company, then on the brink of bankruptcy.

A few months – and some robust exchanges with Mr Piëch – later, it was Mr Bohn who left the group. His departure provided an early indication of the power of the “Piëch factor” – how the unofficial leader of one of the two Porsche family clans, who collects ceremonial daggers and is one of the company’s largest shareholders, pushes through decisions and plays chicken with anyone who crosses his path.

Such traits have been on prominent display in recent months as Porsche has faced up to its latest crisis. An audacious attempt to take over Volkswagen, Europe’s largest carmaker – where Mr Piëch heads the supervisory board – went badly wrong after the global economic crisis created fundraising problems and led to a dramatic deterioration in car sales, while politicians laid obstacles in his path.

Rather than give up, Mr Piëch, aged 72, moved to turn the tables on those who have blocked his ambitions by plotting an alternative plan that would create an integrated company, with himself firmly in overall control. In the process, he has escalated feuding among Porsche’s family owners.

“Piëch cares more about bringing his legacy together than about his personal wealth,” says Max Warburton, analyst at Bernstein Research. But a senior Frankfurt banker who knows Mr Piëch well puts it differently: “It is not so much about his family legacy, as many think. It is about personal power. He is even prepared to risk the future of his families by playing for such high stakes.”


Mr Piëch is not the only head of a European car dynasty prepared to water down his family’s influence for the sake of creating a larger group. Italy’s Agnelli clan is trying to combine Germany’s Opel with Chrysler in the US and Fiat in its home country in a deal that would leave the family with a smaller overall stake.

If he succeeds, however, Mr Piëch, who refused to be interviewed for this article, will have realised a dream of uniting the Porsche and Volkswagen names. The connection dates back to his grandfather, Ferdinand Porsche, an Austrian engineer who in the 1930s both designed the original VW Beetle and founded a precursor to Porsche.

Mr Piëch’s quest to bring Porsche and VW together began when, in the 1970s, a family rule was introduced that Porsche’s shareholders should not work in the company’s management. Instead, Mr Piëch embarked on a career at Audi, a subsidiary of VW, a group that after the second world war had become emblematic of Germany’s Wirtschaftswunder – partly thanks to the mass production, and export, of the Beetle. Audi was just the starting point for Mr Piëch, who in 1993 became VW’s chief executive before moving to head the supervisory board in 2002. “It was always my aim eventually to run a bigger company than my grandfather,” he once said.

Family schisms have long been part of Porsche’s history. Mr Bohn’s ill-fated letter was in response to a public call by Mr Piëch for his own uncle, Ferry Porsche, to resign as chairman. More recently, intense rows have taken place among the more than 60 members of the Porsche and Piëch clans over the group’s move into sports utility vehicles with the Cayenne model and over its new Panamera sedan. Some of the most public spats have been between Mr Piëch and his cousin Wolfgang Porsche, who is Porsche’s supervisory board chairman.

The Porsche family, with its 53.7 per cent stake, has a larger shareholding than the Piëchs, who hold 46.3 per cent – but some have pooled voting rights and, under company rules, the families need to reach unanimity on strategic decisions. The seeds of the latest battle were sown early this year, when it became clear that Porsche’s attempt to take over VW – which bankers dubbed “Germany’s largest leveraged buy-out” – had failed. While other family members struggled to work out what to do, Mr Piëch sensed an opportunity. Porsche had much larger financial problems than the management had admitted, the engineer told family members. In particular, options that Porsche had acquired to buy shares in VW posed a large risk – something that Porsche strongly denies.

Those options had been central to the takeover plan. Since 2005, Holger Härter, Porsche’s chief financial officer, had used a special type of financial product, which did not have to be disclosed, to hedge against a rising VW share price and mask his intention to increase Porsche’s stake further. Some analysts dubbed the sports carmaker a hedge fund and warned that such mechanisms would one day blow up in Mr Härter’s face.

That has not happened – yet. VW’s share price spiked last October after Porsche revealed it had secured direct and indirect control of about 75 per cent of VW shares. At one point, VW became the most valuable company in the world. Its market valuation is still well above those of industry peers. Many hedge funds and other investors that bet on a falling VW share price were left nursing large losses.

Porsche made massive profits with its options trades – on paper. But as it ran out of money to lift its stake further, the risk has grown that it could be forced to unwind the options. That could lead to a collapse of VW’s share price and trigger large writedowns for Porsche’s VW stake. If Porsche holds on to the options, it faces having to pay a fee of hundreds of millions of euros at a time when it is labouring under the interest bill for a €9bn net debt load.

While the families struggled to understand what was going on, Mr Piëch, it now emerges, had already started a manoeuvre aimed at gaining control over the combined group. “He created a lot of chaos and disarray in the family. He was the only one who could keep a cool head,” says a banker familiar with the family discussions.

THE AUSTRIAN CONNECTION

Salzburg’s prosaic pearl

To boast of buying a car at a Porsche dealership makes a huge impression in many countries around the world. Not so in Austria, however, where Porsche is synonymous less with the maker of the much-fancied sports cars and more with a dealership chain-selling Volkswagens and other more earthly conveyances.

Based in the baroque Salzburg is a company that bears the same name as the German carmaker: Porsche Holding. But the Austrian Porsche is Europe’s largest car dealer, with almost 20,000 employees and €12.8bn ($17.9bn, £11.3bn) in annual sales – much higher than the sports carmaker’s revenues.

The fast-growth story of the dealership chain is strongly tied to the late Louise Piëch. The dynamic and worldly daughter of Ferdinand Porsche, designer of the VW Beetle, came to head the Austrian company in 1952. Today, the group has a strong presence in eastern and southern Europe as well as in China.

The company is as reclusive as it is large, giving out few financial details. But insiders say it is the pearl of the Porsche family, many of whom have a residence in or near the town that was Mozart’s birthplace. The Porsche and Piëch clans share ownership in the company that sells the VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda brands as well as Porsches.

Shortly before Easter, Mr Piëch seized his chance. Porsche was struggling to refinance its debt and had started the negotiations with banks too late: the global financial crisis had changed the banking world. At that point, Wendelin Wiedeking, the blunt-speaking chief executive who had saved Porsche in the early 1990s – knew that the takeover plan had failed. It became clear that Germany’s “Volkswagen law” – which gives the state of Lower Saxony special voting rights and had long been opposed by the European Commission – would not after all be overturned. Christian Wulff, the Lower Saxon premier, had enlisted the help of Angela Merkel, German chancellor, and headed off the Commission’s objections with an only modestly revised version of the law. That made it impossible for Porsche to win approval for a “domination agreement” that would give it total control. “Porsche did not think we were capable of doing that. They have simply underrated us,” Mr Wulff recently told party colleagues.

Mr Piëch joined a last-minute meeting at the chancellery of Lower Saxony, the government of which is VW’s second largest shareholder. In the presence of Wolfgang Porsche and VW’s management, Mr Wiedeking acknowledged Porsche’s financial problems and came up with the alternative of selling the sports carmaker’s operating business to VW in return for shares. He also asked VW to grant Porsche a loan. VW agreed – with the backing of Mr Piëch – to lend the sports carmaker €700m to relieve the strain.

As Mr Wiedeking stumbled, Mr Piëch turned to Martin Winterkorn, VW’s chief executive, to plot a counter-move. Instead of Porsche handing over its operating business in return for VW shares, it should be paid in cash. As a result, Porsche would be able to pay down debt but VW would be left clearly with the upper hand.

Matters came to a head when the families gathered this month in Salzburg, Austria, where many of them live. In a loosely worded statement they promised to create an “integrated car manufacturer”, with Porsche as an independent tenth marque alongside parts of the VW group such as Audi, Skoda and Bentley. Some scoffed that the wording resembled a “G20 communiqué” that left ample room for different interpretations.

In recent weeks, Mr Wiedeking – backed by Wolfgang Porsche – has attempted to breathe life into a fresh plan. He has sought an investor from the Middle East to help increase Porsche’s capital and reduce its debt – thus adding to its clout in negotiations with VW. But in doing so he is running up against a family taboo against selling out. A move in the 1980s by one Piëch family member to sell his stake to an Arab investor was blocked by the rest of the family.

Mr Wiedeking is also likely to face continuing resistance from Mr Piëch, who wants VW and himself – rather than Porsche and his cousin – at the centre of a new alliance. This was underscored at a press briefing in Sardinia shortly after the Salzburg gathering, where Mr Piëch launched a characteristically delphic verbal attack on Mr Wiedeking. Sitting in the restaurant of the Hotel Romazzino, close to the Costa Smeralda with its emerald-coloured water, he told reporters: “I still trust Mr Wiedeking” – only to then cheerfully add: “You can delete the word ‘still’”. After a few further shots against Porsche’s management, his wife Ursula intervened and ordered him to leave: “Ferdi, the wild boar will become cold.”

Those close to him say Mr Piëch would eventually like to bring in other brands, for example by acquiring Ducati, the Italian motorcycle maker, or Suzuki of Japan, or MAN, the German truck manufacturer in which VW already has a near 30 per cent stake. “VW, family, money” is how Mr Piëch once described his priorities.

The next few weeks and months are likely to be bumpy for all sides. Mr Wiedeking, who seems to have lost the backing of many family members, is facing a tough race to secure another €2.5bn in loans Porsche is seeking. But at VW, some are annoyed at Mr Piëch’s power games amid Porsche’s crisis. “Nobody likes to be treated like a puppet,” one says. Outside shareholders have also had reason to complain. Bafin, the German financial watchdog, has faced criticism for not preventing Porsche from keeping markets in the dark about its options strategy. In addition, Mr Piëch is often accused of conflicts of interest by combining the role of VW chairman with being a large Porsche shareholder.

But the patriarch appears to care little about such niceties, as his clashes with Mr Wiedeking have shown. His campaigning against the Porsche chief executive appears to some a proxy war in a fight with his cousin over the chairmanship of the future car group. If Mr Wiedeking loses out, so will Mr Porsche. “Wolfgang Porsche is someone who feels he has the ethical responsibility to back Wiedeking until the end,” says one of his closest friends.

One risk is that Mr Piëch goes too far. In Lower Saxony, Mr Wulff could seize the chance to oust him as chairman – something the ambitious politician has tried before. But most of those who have watched the antics of the past few months suspect the VW chief will prevail. “You should never ever underestimate Mr Piëch,” says the chief executive of one large German automotive group.

A more pressing question would be whether the Piëch and Porsche families will be able to adapt to being shareholders in a much bigger car empire. Further feuding might prove too costly a luxury in such a constellation.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2009

 

De momento, el golpe se ha parado.

VW le concede un préstamo a PORSCHE por valor de 70 Mill. €.

 

crisis

Se ve que lo de sacar el Cayenne diesel era por lo de la crisis, como tenga éxito lo próximo será el panamera diesel, pero mi impresión es que no están vendiendo tantos como esperaban, no tengo datos pero creo que se siguen vendiendo (al menos en España) mas cayenne gasolina. en cualquier caso espero que se solucione la crisis de Porsche y que además de alejar el peligro de desaparición, no nos veamos obligados a "vender nuestra alma" para hacer caja. saludos.

 

De la compra de Porsche a Volkswagen, ahora hablamos de endeudamiento con la que se suponía que era la victima. A mi me empieza a oler mal eso de que era la empresa automovilista más rentable: lo podía ser, pero mo debía ser tan fuerte, y la aventura de compra se les está atragantando hasta el punto de depender de la liquidez de la empresa en la que iban de desembarcar. Sinceramente, creo que algo pasa y se estan contando medias verdades desde la Porsche

Es mi opinion...

 

Supongo que Porsche pensaba saldar la deuda contraida para comprar VW con los beneficios que estaba obteniendo últimamente....pero no contó con la crisis.

¿o contaba con los beneficios de VW? para el caso es lo mismo, los planes de Wendolin se han ido al traste ¿cuánto durará al frente de Porsche?